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[Wooden Lightning] Thistle? [2 Attachments]
JeanG
#8907 Did Uffa Fox have anything to do with the Thistle design?? I always think of him in conjunction with the International 14. The Thistle was sort of a stretched 14. The hull is quite different from the original Lightning as the 14 had more of a flat run and the Lightning was a large bowl as it sat upon the water. I have sailed all three and the Lightning has been the most steady and stable of the lot. There is little that is similar between the Lightning's plank and frame construction and the Thistle's molded hull. Jean . On Monday, December 28, 2015 9:09 AM, "seapost263@... [Wooden_Lightning]" wrote: [Attachment(s) from seapost263@... [Wooden_Lightning] included below] Everybody is right it is an International Fourteen from thelate '30s. More particularly it is the Uffa Fox 'Alarm' on which SandyDouglass based the Thistle. Debbie as Flying Scot Class Historian is our go to for all things Douglass. When crewing for her in her Scot back in'74 at Smith Mt. Lake I had the chance to meet Sandy Douglass. A pieceof work, one of the most colorful characters in the history of smallboat racing. Where we share a connection is with the peopleinvolved with Thistle. Many of our best would call the Thistle home,Goldsmith, Proctor, Dieball and others. Many calling Lightning home have won in Thistles, the Fishers and Terhune to name a couple. The ThistleClass has always been what we have become, a racing boat with a devotedtribe of sailors supporting it. The Thistle never achieved the numbersthat the Lightning did and never was considered a big family daysailer as many Lightnings were. The story of Alarm, Douglass and the Rochester(NY) Canoe Club sheds light on the time, place and mind set of peoplethat would bring us the Lightning. To make a distinction 'yacht racing' is much older than 'small boat racing'. We in Lightnings,Scots andThistles are 'small boat racers' that is we sail boats as evenly matched as possible that are reasonably prices so accessible to all. Up to theThirties any racing of significance was in finely crafted boatsindividually designed and sailed by the 'right ' people. Even the tinyACA canoes sailed by Douglass were considered small yachts. This waseven more true in England then the world leader in most things. TheGreat Depression was much less severe in England. The 14 footer waspopular at that time and a young man born on the Isle of Wight, Uffa Fox , was the designer of choice. Called the inventor of the planning hull (that should raise eyebrows in scow country) he was innovator anddeveloped much of what is now the high performance dinghy. Anaccomplished canoe sailor he would represent England in matches with the ACA. Most memorable was his match race with Sandy Douglass in Englandin 1933. Fox with a larger and faster canoe that Sandy's ACA 16x30 won.Sandy' father would buy a few Fox canoes for him. Sandy had found a life long friend and mentor. Later when he began boat building Sandy would build Fox designs and incorporate his building methods. In the US sailors would adopt the Fox type fourteen abandoning theCanadian type International Fourteen like Skaneateles Boat Co. wasoffering. The Rochester Canoe Club unhappy with their 14 builderapproached Douglass to build boats for them in the Fox manner. Unusual in their request was that a standard design would be used, truly onedesign unlike the English fleet. This concept of true one design looks to be first found in upstate NY / Lake Ontairo with this and the Lightning design. The Fox Alarm design was chosen. Themarket was limited due to the high cost of the build. Douglass wouldbemoan the fact that builders of the Snipe could deliver a boat at halfthe cost of his boats. This would motivate him to look for a buildingmethod for round hulls. For Douglass cost advantage would be tenet ofany boats he would build. In time this would be most evident with theFlying Scot in competition with the Lightning builders. Not mentioned in his autobiography he would have found his answer at the 1941 New YorkMotor Boat Show. There Skaneateles exhibited a molded wooden dinghydeveloped with Sparkman & Stephens. The Hydrolite Dinghy using the a hot / pressurized molding process thin veneers of mahogany wereassembled and 'cooked' to cure under pressure in an autoclave. A process developed for US Plywood,George Barnes of SBCo. is credited fordeveloping a special glue to make the plywood laminate suitable formarine applications. A glue to be important in the building of PT boats in the coming War. Douglass would contact US Plywood to see if the Alarm 14could be molded for him. With numbers in hand he sold the Rochestergroup on the method. They would cooperate and the molded wooden sailboat was born. The war stopped Sandy's boat building but after he wouldcomplete his Thistle ( with a deep bow to Fox) and continue building the Alarm 14. Partnering with Ray McLeod the Thistle would be his baby until McLeod forced him out of the firm and the Thistle Class despite his objections moved to modernize the boat. His response would be the Flying Scot in 1958 a boat bearing a striking resemblance in profile to a new Fox design of the same year. An interesting note is that D&M sold the Alarm mold to Lightning builder Howard Siddons who would build it with a Snipe rig installed and would call it the Jet 14. And for Mike, yes the Thistle is the original "rail tail" boat. I am usingLightning style hiking straps that I find more comfortable. Have yet togo to the padded pants. The appeal of the Thistle is in its performance. With a long water line and plenty of sail she is fast. A broad chested boat,sheplanes on more forward sections than say a Laser. The Lightning isforgiving,the Thistle demanding. Sail it right or swim. This performance makes for a talented fleet. Here in Carolina it is the top class upstate, perfect light air boat. The Lightning is the boat of choice onthe windier Carolina coast. With this warm weather its the Thistle again next Sunday at CSC. Corky Attached: here is the Scaneateles Hyrolite Dinghy, S&S #323 |
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![[Wooden Lightning] Thistle? [2 Attachments] (2024)](data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAAEAAAABCAQAAAC1HAwCAAAAC0lEQVR42mP8/h8AAvMB+NzmkbcAAAAASUVORK5CYII=)